15 Minutes with Tattoo Artist Jhon Gutti – The Color Timer Podcast
Welcome to the Color Timer podcast.
I am your host Vincent Taylor. This is the
show where we speak to professionals
who work with colour, most of the time. Today
we are speaking to somebody
who works with black and white or more
specifically black and grey. My guest
is Mr. Jhon Gutti. He is a tattoo artist who
specialises in black and grey
tattoo work. On top of that we're going to his
studio so it's the first time I've
taken the show on the road as it were. I'll be
using my 15 minute sand timer as per
usual and I think it's gonna be good. I'm
a bit, you know, on the road never done
it before. We'll see out in the wild.
Alright, let's go.
Take your seats because
the hourglass is about to turn. We are
entering the world of the micro
podcast. Explore the craft, creativity and science
of professionals who use color to
tell stories. Welcome to the Color Timer
with Vincent Taylor.
Today we are in a tattoo studio in
LA and my guest is Mr. Jhon Gutti. Thanks
for coming on Jhon. -Thank you so much
for having me here Vincent. -Now I don't want to
forget I've got to start the sand
timer. Okay. Alright. Here we go. You ready?
-Okay. Alright. Here we go. You ready?
-Alright. Here we go. You ready?
Yeah. You want to do it? A lot of
pressure. I'll do it. Boom. That's it. You
-I'll do it. Boom. That's it. You
You specialise in black and white tattoo
work. Yes. That's your world but but when I
-Yes. That's your world but but when I
-That's your world but but when I
was talking to you originally and I
said you know anyone who does colour work
you know but I want to speak to them
and get them on the show and then as I spoke
to you I realised that you do
reference colour and you look into colour. Yes.
-Yes.
What's your fascination with with
black and white first of all?
-So it's in my
opinion on the skin it ages well so
I think it's a more grateful and gracious
like result. So, in the long run
color will suffer more from sun, aging, all the
things that are organically happen
to our body and I feel like black will last
in a better shape and as a
personal preference I think it's more classy
when you look at a black and
white tattoo. I'm not talking nothing wrong
on the other color there's nothing
wrong about it so it's amazing. It looks
beautiful too. In my personal
preference I think black and white looks ages better.
-Yeah. Now backing up a little
bit, your background as an architect, you
trained to be an architect
-Yes.
What pulled you over into the world of tattoo work?
I actually got my degree and I do
work about three years as an architect but
this is all happening in Colombia
so the industry is very different you know
as a major industry in every society
you know there's a lot of like things that
are out of your control like you're
not gonna progress you're not gonna get paid
well if you don't know someone
in the company blah blah blah all the
bureaucratic like things behind the
the corking you know so at the time that I
started studying I was already
starting to tattoo so you can say this is this
is studied as a hobby then as a
way to support my career you know I guess
Studying is expensive. Luckily I
had my my parents support but this was
definitely like a good way to go
myself so skipping forward when after after
these three years of me trying
and trying in different companies and you
know getting a very bad payment you
know like I was barely making it monthly so
I know I mean this can keep going
like this so I went back to like full-time
tattoos just because it was already
like my comfort zone, you know, I got out of my
comfort zone to try architecture
didn't work out went back to what I know.
-When you were building a
tattoo I'm very conscious of the way you talk
about about this the way you
create separation,
-Yes.
-In your black and gray
work is incredible. I'd love you to
talk about that but also you did mention
to me that sometimes you'll use a
color reference as well.
-Yes. So basically when
you're looking at a black and gray
image you're barely seeing three tones you
know dark you know light and the
light the light is line which is the white
long so in reality is like three
tones of black right but I added a few extra
steps there in order to have a
better transition like a better separation of
those subjects with the background
but color has more you know is a way more
complex thing to understand so
let's say let's talk about a portrait right so
when you look at a portrait you're
only technically seeing three tones in black
and gray but when you look at that
in color you see way more if you're looking
at like light temperatures you're
looking at so like so many other things
involving a photo or an image the
reference so in order for me to make the
right decisions I, I support
myself staring at a color reference next to a
black and gray reference why
because at the end of the day I'm not making a
photo I'm not creating a
photo on anybody's skin I'm making an
interpretation of what I'm seeing.
And in the process you got to make sure that
this tattoo is gonna age well so
I support myself from color reference to
understand better the separation of
the tones since in black and gray I'm only
seeing like every three tones so
I go to the color see the temperature
separation and make those decision
you know into the skin so that's why I stare
that color reference, that black and
gray reference, and then my brain is whatever
is doing in a product.
-I want to
talk about black because you know there's
black and then there's black...
-Black is black yeah
-And you've mentioned a
couple times about that under here
is you're approaching the end of a tattoo
-Yes.
Then you'll kind of give it
that final pass I'm really seeing black.
-Yes.
-Talk to me about black.
-In tattoos you know for in the whole process there's
a lot of variables involved. You know
and most of them you can control them but
there's this tiny group of things
that are completely out of your control and
you have the wait until the very end
in order to understand what's going on so
So, we're tattooing you know in a body
you know is a living organ so of course
healing is one of those crucial
things that you just hope for the best.
You do you take all your precautions
you take all the steps and hope for the best.
You know because once the client
leaves the studio...
You are in no control my friend.
Whatever it
happens, right? So, that's why like during the
process I only use some black
that I call I like to call it the blending
black which is the one that I also
gonna pull water down to create them the the
dark tone of a shade the mid tone of
the shade the light tone of the shade and
then the skin and my white
highlights that's my process so I use blending
three tones of shades you know
the blending black three tones of shades
-Mhm hmm.
Your skin, whatever your skin tone I
have to like those three tones might change
depending on your skin tone.
-Of course.
-You know let's say it's a
darker skin tone so I might not be
able to use three tones but just two and use
more of the skin in order to retain
the structure over the years you know so
once that everything heals once that
the client comes back and I'm able to see
the result you know let's say a
sleeve so sleeve is probably 10 to 12 sessions
to complete so after all all the all
the layout is done after all the tattoo is
like there I like to analyze the
skin see how it's holding all these tones and
then introduce the the darkest
black which is a thick thick ink you know that
is way more concentrated than the
regular blending black.
The blending black
is thin you know it just goes quick
and it's good to like structure the whole
tattoo not in the process but then if
I want to like accent strong darkness then
I need the, the, capital "black"
right that's that's when when the actual like
deepest black comes into the game.
-Yeah.
-So, that's why I wait until the very end
to see this, you know, some skins
are so lined that they don't even need that.
-Mm-hmm.
-The structure and the
contrast is good enough like there's no need for
that but some others required it
especially when like the tattoo has a
lot of like you know is when is it
like a complex design and you you want to use
some of that to kind of like
separate better the subject from the background
you know make all this like the
small decisions that actually make a huge
difference right so that's until
the very end my friend.
-I talk a lot where I
interview people for the podcast
and about craft and art.
And the separation and the blurring of
the two.
-Yeah.
-Now your craft I mean we
touched on some of those variables
you know skin, inks, needles how then do
you balance that with bringing
your artistic vision into the work as well?
-I think you said trial and error kind
of thing man like over the years...
Ink have been evolving since I
first started doing this you know they're
better today than they used to be
20 years ago 18 years ago when I exactly
started. So, everything is made this
industry's constantly moving forward as
every industry is right? So, I think
that like you know machines back in the days
were like just very different from
what we're using right now you know heavier
louder you needed at least four or
five machines set up on your tray now you
only need one of the most.
Because one will do everything for you
so it's just
it just keeps changing like if I
go online and look for something new today
I'm pretty sure there's gonna be
something that is like moving forward
already you know?
-Yeah.
-I just I was scrolling
this morning and then I had
this ad on Instagram about like
this new disposable metal
cartridges with needles you know
right now we're using you know first for the
big bone was oh yeah disposable
cartridges and I was like, holy shit,
"What is this thing?" you know?
-Yeah.
-Now, everybody uses it
you know?
And now we're going from plastic to
metal so I'm just curious how it will affect
the inflow you know this plastic
has pores metal might they might be able to
like avoid those pores as the as
the traditional tubes the grip tubes that we
used to do, use a lot, before you
know so we're going from metal to plastic and
now we're going back to metal
just disposable so this industry is
constantly like moving somewhere
you know so talking about that... Oh! We're gonna
need a lot of tech to just go a
little deeper into that you know.
-Well I did I
did have I had a guest I spoke to
a little while ago and and it was the same
thing I went oh there's so many
questions I have about this part of it
-Yeah.
And I did kind of maybe
tickle the carrot about me and it coming on
season two, so maybe we'll come
back and, love to talk...
Do you... um....
This might be diplomatic I did
a diplomatic answer or not I don't know
but with some clients that are
there some tattoos that you go no I don't want
to do that?
-Yeah, yeah, yeah...
it's something that happens very often.
Sometimes you don't you don't
feel comfortable with the person.
-Yeah.
-That's why I always do like a
consultation and try to see how I feel
with the client you know just to
make sure that I'm the right person for them.
-Yeah.
-And because you know if I
if I sign up on a long sleeve or a big
skeleton to like a back or a leg
and then I don't like the vibe of the person
you're gonna be stuck in this
position for a long time so, yeah, I try to that had
happened that's why I started
doing this you know and started like kind of
like filtering the content of my
book you know and saying to like you know
that's all my case and also like
sometimes I'm not the right artist you
know the first one wants something
that is completely out of my league or or
they're expecting something very
different from what I do you know let's
say someone asked me to the color
right now I haven't known color in so long you
know like I'm I'm definitely not
the right person like there's a lot of good
artists out there that are faster
than me with color you know because if I go
with color I'll be so slow.
-Have you ever
encountered a project where you've
gone you know what this will look better in
color?
-Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've been
honest about it
-Or the opposite!
-Yeah I've been all in about it
you know like sometimes people are
expecting this like meant to be
color tattoos you know but they wanted in
black and gray and then you like
create this image put it in black and gray and
you're like now go to color go to
someone go somewhere else because this
will definitely look better in
color yeah I can you can get it in a nice way
in color it's not a very often
that that happens as more it happens more
often to to go from color to black
and gray in my case yeah you know it's as
my thing so, of course you will it
will it will look... it will make more sense to
me all the time to go black and gray
but the other way around yeah it happened to
you a couple times.
-Now you're also a painter?
-Yes.
-I'm I'm so fascinated and
intrigued by the idea like you know
you make a painting you make a painting and
it's got this life this and who
knows how long the last.
-Color!
-But a...
tattoo it has this lifespan like
a literal lifespan of the person it's on.
How do you feel about that
knowing that your your artwork will...
Quite literally die?
So it's a duality you know
I hate it and I love it too,
you know?
I hate it because all
the effort you put into like crisp lines
and to make crisp transitions
to make everything looks like very sharp
edges using all this things, you know,
all that thing is gonna go away very soon.
You know? I want to say very soon
I'm talking like maybe...
Five years? You're gonna
start seeing this change?
-Yeah.
You know cuz your body is constantly like
analyzing what this is and in the
middle of means analyzes in this analysis it
will it will just like start to
make you fuzzy you know so I hate it because
of that but at the same time is
the beauty of it you know like your body is
aging. Everybody since the day
we're born we we start aging you know so it's
meant to happen that way there's
no other way around it you know so I hate
it but I love it I love that that's
nature and you just have to accept it.
-In a similar frame or question you
know you spend so many hours on that
artwork and then the person goes by
you never see it again I mean how does that
how does that make you feel?
-So it's not always like that
like it's a bittersweet feeling.
You know it's... you feel
happy because you completed the piece right
you're oh that's amazing! I finally
completed this piece now you can see the
whole result.
-Yeah.
-But at the same time you
never know the client is coming
back and you already developed
this connection with this person over the
many sessions you have done that
you're like just hope for the best if I'm gonna
know they come back sometime just to
say "hi", or to get another tattoo which is the
case with with so many of my clients
I have just like so like like I always say
probably 70-80 percent of my
clientele is just like people that keep coming
back I'm going back and get more
that's how you get more so it's it's a long time
relationship basically, you know?
-I... I'm in that world again
where my sand timer's
run out now which it's always
the case it's like I just start...
again that's that's part of the charm
of this is it's like but I've got one last
question for you which I'm
sure you get asked all the time if someone's
thinking about their first tattoo
what's your advice?
-So my advice for this
kind of people is first understand
what you want.
You know like is this just...
something that you just want to do
because of the moment like you want just
a tattoo just to say oh you I did
it you know but are you planning on getting
something more later you know if
that's the case don't go too small you know
because like sometimes you get a
small tattoo right here and then many like
sometimes months later and or years
later they come back and say like hey you
know what I want a full sleeve but
now you have this thing here in the middle
and it's gonna be in the way all
the time.
-Yeah.
-So, if you are doing it just to
get a taste of it that's fine but
if you're doing it to get a taste of the
feeling and make sure that you
can handle a full sleeve, try that in a in a
part where you like can be sure
that is not gonna be on the way later for
something bigger you know because
those small touches and time of ruin the flow
ruin everything for a for a whole
design and it's funny some people say oh but
it's just a small tattoo right here
yes it's right where you need a face is right
when you need this like very
like important detail of a certain subject
it's it's something that will be
my advice man like if it's something just
like teenage idea let's go and do
it yeah there's no crazy that's fine get it
you know it's a small tattoo
you're gonna get experience as a story to tell
to your grandkids whatever right
but if you're taking if you're taking these
extra steps just to make sure that you can
play the big game for later?
-Mm-hmm.
-Do it
where it's not gonna be in the way
you know get it I don't know man on a side
right here or you know the butt! What
is good and then it's not gonna ruin...
-Jhon
thank you. Thank you for
having a chat. I really appreciate it.
-I appreciate you having
me here man.
That's it! Our first off-site interview.
Which is kind
of hilarious. It definitely feels...
Very talk showy.
Thank you for listening.
Thank you to MixingLight.com
They're my executive producer. My friend
of the show Phil White and to my producer Kayla.
And thanks for listening.
Well there you go,
my first
out-in-the-wild recording it was
good, it was fun. hey thank you so much for
listening I do really appreciate
it I wanted to add a quick note at the end
just to say thank you everyone for
all your wonderful feedback it's been really
kind and really overwhelming thank
you for listening.
And, yeah I'll see you next time.
The Color Timer, a micro podcast experience.