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Artist Stuart Semple – Color as Inspiration, Performance Art, And Rebellion
Welcome to the Color Timer Podcast. I am your host
Vincent Taylor. This is a
podcast where we speak with professionals who work
with color. Today I'm speaking
with Mr. Stuart Semple. He is an artist, an
activist, a performer and to say I'm a
big fan is somewhat of an understatement. I've been
following Stuart's work for
many years and I'm beyond excited to
speak with him and what are we waiting
for? Let's go.
Take your seats because the
hourglass is about to turn. We are
entering the world of the micro podcast. Explore
the craft, creativity and science
of professionals who use color to tell stories.
Welcome to the Color Timer with
Vincent Taylor.
Stuart, hello. Thank you for joining me. I'm glad
to be here. How you doing? Yeah, not
too bad, mate. Not too bad. It's um, it's, I know
it's been a long time coming. I've
been, I've been trying to chat to you for ages, so
it's, it's great to finally catch you.
Yeah, I know. I'm glad to be here. I'm looking
forward to this. Awesome. Awesome. I, um, I
was looking through, cause I, I read up my
questions such a long time ago and I was
looking at them before we jumped to the call and,
and, and I was obviously being
really conscientious and they're kind of involved.
So if you'll please excuse me,
I'm actually going to read them. I don't normally
do this, but I want to read them
because they're really specific questions. So yeah,
but I'm going to start the
same timer. Are you ready? Here we go. Yeah, go.
It's, it's kicking off the, the
pressure's on. Okay, let's see. All right. All
pressure's on. Okay, let's see. All right. All
right. I'm so excited. Okay. Um, so
you work as an artist, an activist and a performer,
uh, and you've used the internet
as a performance space. Um, and it's really
difficult to know where to start with you,
but, um, I'm going to ask a hugely philosophical
question and make a little bit
annoying. Why do we need art?
That is a deep question. I don't think we've got a
long enough time timer, but, um, I
think it does so many things, right? It does so
many things. Um, and of course we need it.
I don't think there's any argument, but but let's
focus on a couple of things that it does
that I think are really important. I think the
first thing is, is it helps us express
ourself. So I think we all have a sense of self and
I think the expression of that sense
of self is something that makes us quite unlike any
other animal. And it's something that
is, is really important. And through that
expression of our sense of self, when other
people see that they start to understand themselves
better and the world we're in. So I think
the arts or art is actually how humanity learns
from one another, from our history,
from our legacy, actually learns where we are and
what we are. So I think that's the
function art does that nothing else can do. Yeah,
man. Yeah. It rings true for me. I mean,
and I know, you know, for me, my experience of art
is I ended up learning so much more
about myself as well and what wakes me up, you
know, what kind of cuts through all the
stuff. All right, I'm going to be good. I'm going
to behave. I'm going to move on to question
number two. And I am going to talk about color, but
I need to get this elephant in the room
out first. And here's your quote from a little
while back. So, "We've got a better black now.
So it's time to bury the hate so we can obliterate
Anish Kapoor's black" once and for all. And
you've created the super nano black paint. What
does this mean? In what way? Well, first
of all, okay, that's not that you're right. It's
two part. What is this thing about Anish
Kapoor? And then what have you created as a
response? Okay. So the first thing that
Anish Kapoor is he's the billionaire superstar
artist who acquired the rights to a new material
called Vantablack, which is the blackest black in
the world. So this material, if you put it on
something on a car or a building or a wristwatch or
something absorbs 99.9% of light. It is so
black, you can't imagine it makes 3D things look
2D. So he has the rights to that. So he's the only
artist in the world who can make artworks with that
stuff. So that was really bad. I thought
that was morally wrong. Wrong in so many ways,
right? So I couldn't get on board with that. I
thought it was very elitist and kind of
exclusionary and wrong. So
what I did was I put the world's
pinkest pink on the internet as a joke. And I said,
by using the pinkest pink, you confirmed
that you're not Anish Kapoor, you're not going to
give any to Anish Kapoor and it to the best of
knowledge it won't make its way into the hands of
Anish Kapoor. Then what happened was that went
completely viral and people thought it was funny. I
wasn't actually expecting anybody to buy it. I
thought it was a piece of performance art, but they
did. And then they started writing to me
saying, you got to make a black better than his
and you got to defeat him and all the rest of it.
So yeah, so I started making this black with some
scientists and some geeks and we knew how to do
it, but we couldn't afford to make it. So we did a
crowd funder and here we are seven years later,
with what I call black 4.0, which is this
unbelievable super black that's pretty affordable.
Anyone in the world can use it unless they're Anish
Kapoor. And I think that's kind of defeated
him and that's probably the end of the story. I
just, because when I, when I started, when I,
I'm going to use the word discovered, but when I
kind of discovered you and I started reading
about you and then I started reading all this, I'm
going, what the fuck? I didn't, yeah. So it's so,
it's so called, it's wild. It is completely wild.
It's weird. Imagine if it was your life. It's
bizarre. Like what is going on? All right. So, so
you work with, and I'm sure more, but you work
with acrylic, spray paint, watercolor, oil. And
through all of these I get, and I use the word
mesmerized and I use the word purposefully, but I'm
mesmerized by use of color and black and white.
So when you're creating this work, do you see it
already or do you discover it as you go? You know,
what makes you choose yellow over say red or a
combination of black and white next to an
explosion of color? Yeah. So particularly in color.
So for me, color is a shortcut to emotion.
And when I paint, I have music on in the studio
quite loud and I use very specific music to get
me to a certain state and it kind of dictates what
color a certain passage is painted in. I know
that sounds weird and sort of synesthesia and
strange, but, but the colors really are kind of
from a very emotional kind of intuitive space. So
even though I might know what image I'm making,
I have a sort of overall tone of a work, like a
vibe, a feeling that I'm trying to convey.
And, and the color is like essential in kind of
giving it that sort of sonic quality. I don't
know how to describe it. Yeah. Yeah. I think that,
I think that describes it really well. And, and I,
and does it, well, it does. And, and I know you
kind of, um, uh, put a disclaimer about it not
being synesthesia, but, but I mean, there is
definitely that relationship, right? I mean,
if you're being, being plugged in by the music, I
think so. I think so. And, and I think like,
what I try and do with my work is have an overall
tone or like a sort of tonal sense to something
that maybe when you come in contact with one of
these, these paintings, like there's some sort of
vibrational kind of resonance. And I think it's
probably not, not too dissimilar to like what
you're doing in your work. You're trying to give a
scene or something, a certain, you know, it's an
emotional thing that you're portraying through the
color, right? And that's what sucks you into it.
And that's what, what kind of, I don't know, it
elevates it. I mean, that color takes things to
another, another place, you know, but for me, it's
very instinctive. Yeah. Um, and I don't think
about it too much. Yeah. I might have an overall
sense though, like I want this one to be kind of
moody and it's a bit of a kind of ballad and it's
kind of a bit, you know, and that might sort of
dictate the palette. How do you, you've, you've
probably never had this problem, but how do you
shut off your logical thinking, you know, when
you're, when you're just letting yourself go and
how do you turn that off so you don't start
analyzing what you're doing?
Ah, well, that's a good question. So I don't know
the answer to it. I wish I did. Um, but I know
it happens and I slip into it sometimes and I'd
love to slip into it more. And I've read all the
theories and we've all read Rick Rubin's book and
all the rest of it, but that doesn't seem to work.
I think I accidentally fall into it and I just try
and stay there for as long as I can. And I wish I
knew there was some sort of recipe, but I think
music helps. I mean, I will say that. Yeah. Um,
but, but actually when you know what you're doing
and you're really in the flow and you get into a
rhythm and you start forgetting time and you just
start kind of, you know, there's a space you enter
and I don't know what that is. Yeah. It's weird. I
don't either. And, uh, yeah, I, I guess if somebody
could discover it, they'd probably sell it, I
guess. Um, uh, so this is a big broad one as well,
but, um, where does your knowledge of color come
from? That's a really
interesting question. I think,
um, my knowledge of color is, is, is from lots of
different places. So I've, I've seen a lot of art.
I've read a lot of books. I've seen a lot. So
there's, there's everything that my eyes have seen
that I maybe don't even remember that has had some
sort of influence on me. You know, I've been
socialized into color. I've seen color, I've
experienced color. So I have, uh, 43 years of
living in a colorful world. So I have lived
experience of color. I've read a lot of books.
I've learned a lot of science over the years. I'm
not a scientist, but I've learned things about
color. Um, I've learned theories of color. So
there's an academic sort of understanding of
color that I've developed over time. Um, and then
there's a practice, which is what, 40 years of my
life since I was a kid, using color to draw and
paint and make stuff. So there's practical
application in color. There's an experience of
using it. Off, off the back of that, what you said
then about, you know, because you've using color,
you've done sort of studying and reading and,
and again, we're coming into that kind of logical
part, but, but do you think, this is such a
101 question, but do you think it can, it is
something that can be learned? Um, I think you
can learn about color somewhat, you know, someone
at art school can show you a color wheel and what
complimentary color is and what a contrasting color
is. But I think what we start to develop
is a sense of intuition and taste and sort of
understanding of color. And I think that comes
through practice. I mean, it's like you can read a
book on swimming, but until you swim, you can't,
you got practice, right? So yeah, I, I think, I
think it's a bit of both. I think you can
learn about it, but you need to practice color.
It's a craft. As you were saying that I had this
image of, you know, Neo from the matrix, when he
gets the thing plugged in
and go, Oh, I know Kung Fu.
I bet they go, Oh, I know color. It's like this
kind of instant understanding at all. It would
be amazing. Yeah, it would. But I think it takes
time. Yeah, I think so as well. And this is the
whole inspiration question, which, but you, I find
you a very inspirational artist. You're like, you,
you, I just look at your work and I get really
excited. And who or what inspires you
so much? I mean, I think the main thing is society,
you know, what's happening in the world,
you know, what's happening to human beings? What
are we actually experiencing? What's,
what's going on here? We're all living on this
planet at the same time. Something's happening,
you know, so I'm really fascinated in the sociology
of things like how society moves and morphs and
how that sort of portrayed through culture. So
movies, music, fashion shoots, photography,
poetry, really inspires me massively all the time.
And just seeing what people are creating,
people's creative work inspires me. Whatever for.
Do you, do you, I feel again that this is such a
cliche question, but I want to ask it anyway. How
do you know when you, when a painting's finished,
you know, when you're working on that? You don't,
you don't, you never will. And it's a question
that's asked quite a lot. And the truth is you'll
never know, you'll never know if you added a little
bit more, whether it had been better or whether if
you'd have finished a little bit earlier,
you'd have left it a little bit unripe. And
actually with my work, I'm leaving things very
sort of underdeveloped. I'm leaving them way off
the boil now. And I like that sort of space and
that kind of unfinishedness of things. And I'm
finishing things a lot earlier than I would have
done five or six years ago. That's really
interesting. So you're, you're kind of just
stepping back. You're conscious of that a little
bit more. That's wild.
Yeah, way more. How, you know,
as an artist, you know, and it's, it's all so much
of it's coming from, from the heart and that space
place of creativity. What do you think about people
who are critics about then? Do you have an opinion?
I think they're brilliant. They're great.
Brilliant. We need more of it.
I think, I think actually we're
not seeing enough criticism. I think it's really
useful to help us navigate. And I think that's how
we grow. And I think we should be deeply critical.
And I think we're at a time actually where
criticism is seen as something negative. I think
that's really sad. I think, I think it's really
important that we're critical about artistic output
and what it means. And, you know, dare I say,
is something good and what makes it good and does
it work and why doesn't it work? And yeah, I, I
remember, you know, a zillion years ago, studying
art history at school. And it was the first time
that, you know, that was, that we were even given
that idea of going, Oh, do you like this? Yeah.
How come? You know, or you don't like it? How come?
And to have to analyze it in your brain, well,
yeah, why don't, why do I like it? It's, I love
that feeling, you know, and, and also being able
to know ourselves. Yeah. Agreed. And, and, and, you
know, separating it from going, well,
I just like it and that's okay, but, but it's fun
to kind of then explore. Yeah. Yeah. What,
what gets you going about it? And there's loads of
brilliant art that I don't like. Yeah. And I
totally respect and I don't like it. I think it's
bad for whatever reason. Yeah. But I've learned
so much from it. I mean, I love bad art as much as
I love good art, you know, because it's subjective.
Yeah. It doesn't matter.
That's awesome. It's not about that.
All right. Now where am I up to on my, on my, my
silly little list that I've got? Oh,
what role does provocation or shock play for an
artist? I know that there's plenty of art that
will, you know, soothe you or you'll lose yourself
in, but there seems to be so much more that gets
motivated by the need to kind of slap you across
the face. I mean, do you have thoughts about that?
Yeah, I think, I think the, um, yeah, I do have
thoughts about that. I think some art sets out
to be sensational and to shock and it does garner
attention and some issues need that, right? I mean,
we need some artistic voices to cut through if
they're saying something important and, and
actually sometimes art should disturb us and make
us ask questions because it's freedom of speech.
It's where we express big, bold ideas. And we're
very lucky to live in the West where we live,
where we can express these ideas. Cause we might be
in another part of the world where we can't,
but, um, but I don't think a lot has to do that. I
think it can be beautiful and it can be elegant
and it can be moving and it can be romantic and it,
it can be all of those things. Just like how a
movie can be all of those things can be shocking
and frightening and make us cry or make us full of
joy, you know, and I think art should do all of
those things, you know, and sometimes it's easier
to shock maybe. And I think that's what worries me
than it is to deal with those more nuanced
things. Yeah. Um, perhaps a good artist can wield
all of that quite well, get the balancing act.
all of that quite well, get the balancing act.
Um, my, as, as, as per usual, the, the, the sand
time we just, it goes so fast, but I'm going to be,
as I always am, I'm going to be naughty and I'm
as I always am, I'm going to be naughty and I'm
going to squeeze one more in. Um,
just a little, just a little kind of wedged in the
end. Um, I've got, I've got to choose which one I
want. Um, Oh yeah, I, yeah, this, this is, um, this
is a good one to finish on actually. So when,
when you look back at your career as an artist, um,
do you think that you've been on kind of one
winding path, exploring similar ideas or concepts,
or do you think you kind of take hard left or right
turns where your work will change dramatically? And
if it is the latter, is that a conscious choice?
Do you force yourself to turn left and set a right?
Well, I think I've worked across so many different
things and I've done so much stuff,
but I'm always driven by like some kind of impulse.
And the weird thing is, is in retrospect,
when I look back, it all seems to make sense. It
feels very linear. And I've, I've thought about
this a lot. And I think the consistent thing
weirdly is me. I made it all. That's the thing
it's got in common. So whether it's a paint
formulation or an art installation or a bit of
video work or wherever it is that I've made, I did
it. So it's how I felt at the time. So
it doesn't ever feel like a hard right or a hard
left, but at the time it can feel quite
desperate. Like what on earth am I doing learning
how to write code today when I was painting
yesterday, but in a long enough timeline, it all
seems to kind of make sense. It's weird.
That's amazing. Thank you, first of all, for taking
time out. And also I wanted to thank you
just from a personal level. Like I said before that
I find your work really inspiring. I honestly
do. It literally gets my heart kind of racing and,
and, and it's, yeah, so it's an absolute joy
to speak to you actually. Oh, well, it was lovely
to meet you. Thank you, mate. Thank you. Cheers.
Stuart, thank you so much for taking part in the
podcast. It was brilliant to have you on. And,
um, yeah, apologies again for reading the
questions. I was convinced
I was going to fluff it if I
didn't read them. Um, thank you to my executive
producer MixingLight.com. If you're watching
this or listening to this on their website, you
already know what they do. Uh, if not check them
out mixinglight.com. They can help you with
everything color. Uh, and thank you to you,
the listener. I've had so much great feedback
already. Keep the comments coming, do the like,
subscribe, all that stuff. It really does help and,
see you next episode.
The color timer, a micro podcast experience.