Artist Stuart Semple – Color as Inspiration, Performance Art, And Rebellion

Welcome to the Color Timer Podcast. I am your host

Vincent Taylor. This is a

podcast where we speak with professionals who work

with color. Today I'm speaking

with Mr. Stuart Semple. He is an artist, an

activist, a performer and to say I'm a

big fan is somewhat of an understatement. I've been

following Stuart's work for

many years and I'm beyond excited to

speak with him and what are we waiting

for? Let's go.

Take your seats because the

hourglass is about to turn. We are

entering the world of the micro podcast. Explore

the craft, creativity and science

of professionals who use color to tell stories.

Welcome to the Color Timer with

Vincent Taylor.

Stuart, hello. Thank you for joining me. I'm glad

to be here. How you doing? Yeah, not

too bad, mate. Not too bad. It's um, it's, I know

it's been a long time coming. I've

been, I've been trying to chat to you for ages, so

it's, it's great to finally catch you.

Yeah, I know. I'm glad to be here. I'm looking

forward to this. Awesome. Awesome. I, um, I

was looking through, cause I, I read up my

questions such a long time ago and I was

looking at them before we jumped to the call and,

and, and I was obviously being

really conscientious and they're kind of involved.

So if you'll please excuse me,

I'm actually going to read them. I don't normally

do this, but I want to read them

because they're really specific questions. So yeah,

but I'm going to start the

same timer. Are you ready? Here we go. Yeah, go.

It's, it's kicking off the, the

pressure's on. Okay, let's see. All right. All

pressure's on. Okay, let's see. All right. All

right. I'm so excited. Okay. Um, so

you work as an artist, an activist and a performer,

uh, and you've used the internet

as a performance space. Um, and it's really

difficult to know where to start with you,

but, um, I'm going to ask a hugely philosophical

question and make a little bit

annoying. Why do we need art?

That is a deep question. I don't think we've got a

long enough time timer, but, um, I

think it does so many things, right? It does so

many things. Um, and of course we need it.

I don't think there's any argument, but but let's

focus on a couple of things that it does

that I think are really important. I think the

first thing is, is it helps us express

ourself. So I think we all have a sense of self and

I think the expression of that sense

of self is something that makes us quite unlike any

other animal. And it's something that

is, is really important. And through that

expression of our sense of self, when other

people see that they start to understand themselves

better and the world we're in. So I think

the arts or art is actually how humanity learns

from one another, from our history,

from our legacy, actually learns where we are and

what we are. So I think that's the

function art does that nothing else can do. Yeah,

man. Yeah. It rings true for me. I mean,

and I know, you know, for me, my experience of art

is I ended up learning so much more

about myself as well and what wakes me up, you

know, what kind of cuts through all the

stuff. All right, I'm going to be good. I'm going

to behave. I'm going to move on to question

number two. And I am going to talk about color, but

I need to get this elephant in the room

out first. And here's your quote from a little

while back. So, "We've got a better black now.

So it's time to bury the hate so we can obliterate

Anish Kapoor's black" once and for all. And

you've created the super nano black paint. What

does this mean? In what way? Well, first

of all, okay, that's not that you're right. It's

two part. What is this thing about Anish

Kapoor? And then what have you created as a

response? Okay. So the first thing that

Anish Kapoor is he's the billionaire superstar

artist who acquired the rights to a new material

called Vantablack, which is the blackest black in

the world. So this material, if you put it on

something on a car or a building or a wristwatch or

something absorbs 99.9% of light. It is so

black, you can't imagine it makes 3D things look

2D. So he has the rights to that. So he's the only

artist in the world who can make artworks with that

stuff. So that was really bad. I thought

that was morally wrong. Wrong in so many ways,

right? So I couldn't get on board with that. I

thought it was very elitist and kind of

exclusionary and wrong. So

what I did was I put the world's

pinkest pink on the internet as a joke. And I said,

by using the pinkest pink, you confirmed

that you're not Anish Kapoor, you're not going to

give any to Anish Kapoor and it to the best of

knowledge it won't make its way into the hands of

Anish Kapoor. Then what happened was that went

completely viral and people thought it was funny. I

wasn't actually expecting anybody to buy it. I

thought it was a piece of performance art, but they

did. And then they started writing to me

saying, you got to make a black better than his

and you got to defeat him and all the rest of it.

So yeah, so I started making this black with some

scientists and some geeks and we knew how to do

it, but we couldn't afford to make it. So we did a

crowd funder and here we are seven years later,

with what I call black 4.0, which is this

unbelievable super black that's pretty affordable.

Anyone in the world can use it unless they're Anish

Kapoor. And I think that's kind of defeated

him and that's probably the end of the story. I

just, because when I, when I started, when I,

I'm going to use the word discovered, but when I

kind of discovered you and I started reading

about you and then I started reading all this, I'm

going, what the fuck? I didn't, yeah. So it's so,

it's so called, it's wild. It is completely wild.

It's weird. Imagine if it was your life. It's

bizarre. Like what is going on? All right. So, so

you work with, and I'm sure more, but you work

with acrylic, spray paint, watercolor, oil. And

through all of these I get, and I use the word

mesmerized and I use the word purposefully, but I'm

mesmerized by use of color and black and white.

So when you're creating this work, do you see it

already or do you discover it as you go? You know,

what makes you choose yellow over say red or a

combination of black and white next to an

explosion of color? Yeah. So particularly in color.

So for me, color is a shortcut to emotion.

And when I paint, I have music on in the studio

quite loud and I use very specific music to get

me to a certain state and it kind of dictates what

color a certain passage is painted in. I know

that sounds weird and sort of synesthesia and

strange, but, but the colors really are kind of

from a very emotional kind of intuitive space. So

even though I might know what image I'm making,

I have a sort of overall tone of a work, like a

vibe, a feeling that I'm trying to convey.

And, and the color is like essential in kind of

giving it that sort of sonic quality. I don't

know how to describe it. Yeah. Yeah. I think that,

I think that describes it really well. And, and I,

and does it, well, it does. And, and I know you

kind of, um, uh, put a disclaimer about it not

being synesthesia, but, but I mean, there is

definitely that relationship, right? I mean,

if you're being, being plugged in by the music, I

think so. I think so. And, and I think like,

what I try and do with my work is have an overall

tone or like a sort of tonal sense to something

that maybe when you come in contact with one of

these, these paintings, like there's some sort of

vibrational kind of resonance. And I think it's

probably not, not too dissimilar to like what

you're doing in your work. You're trying to give a

scene or something, a certain, you know, it's an

emotional thing that you're portraying through the

color, right? And that's what sucks you into it.

And that's what, what kind of, I don't know, it

elevates it. I mean, that color takes things to

another, another place, you know, but for me, it's

very instinctive. Yeah. Um, and I don't think

about it too much. Yeah. I might have an overall

sense though, like I want this one to be kind of

moody and it's a bit of a kind of ballad and it's

kind of a bit, you know, and that might sort of

dictate the palette. How do you, you've, you've

probably never had this problem, but how do you

shut off your logical thinking, you know, when

you're, when you're just letting yourself go and

how do you turn that off so you don't start

analyzing what you're doing?

Ah, well, that's a good question. So I don't know

the answer to it. I wish I did. Um, but I know

it happens and I slip into it sometimes and I'd

love to slip into it more. And I've read all the

theories and we've all read Rick Rubin's book and

all the rest of it, but that doesn't seem to work.

I think I accidentally fall into it and I just try

and stay there for as long as I can. And I wish I

knew there was some sort of recipe, but I think

music helps. I mean, I will say that. Yeah. Um,

but, but actually when you know what you're doing

and you're really in the flow and you get into a

rhythm and you start forgetting time and you just

start kind of, you know, there's a space you enter

and I don't know what that is. Yeah. It's weird. I

don't either. And, uh, yeah, I, I guess if somebody

could discover it, they'd probably sell it, I

guess. Um, uh, so this is a big broad one as well,

but, um, where does your knowledge of color come

from? That's a really

interesting question. I think,

um, my knowledge of color is, is, is from lots of

different places. So I've, I've seen a lot of art.

I've read a lot of books. I've seen a lot. So

there's, there's everything that my eyes have seen

that I maybe don't even remember that has had some

sort of influence on me. You know, I've been

socialized into color. I've seen color, I've

experienced color. So I have, uh, 43 years of

living in a colorful world. So I have lived

experience of color. I've read a lot of books.

I've learned a lot of science over the years. I'm

not a scientist, but I've learned things about

color. Um, I've learned theories of color. So

there's an academic sort of understanding of

color that I've developed over time. Um, and then

there's a practice, which is what, 40 years of my

life since I was a kid, using color to draw and

paint and make stuff. So there's practical

application in color. There's an experience of

using it. Off, off the back of that, what you said

then about, you know, because you've using color,

you've done sort of studying and reading and,

and again, we're coming into that kind of logical

part, but, but do you think, this is such a

101 question, but do you think it can, it is

something that can be learned? Um, I think you

can learn about color somewhat, you know, someone

at art school can show you a color wheel and what

complimentary color is and what a contrasting color

is. But I think what we start to develop

is a sense of intuition and taste and sort of

understanding of color. And I think that comes

through practice. I mean, it's like you can read a

book on swimming, but until you swim, you can't,

you got practice, right? So yeah, I, I think, I

think it's a bit of both. I think you can

learn about it, but you need to practice color.

It's a craft. As you were saying that I had this

image of, you know, Neo from the matrix, when he

gets the thing plugged in

and go, Oh, I know Kung Fu.

I bet they go, Oh, I know color. It's like this

kind of instant understanding at all. It would

be amazing. Yeah, it would. But I think it takes

time. Yeah, I think so as well. And this is the

whole inspiration question, which, but you, I find

you a very inspirational artist. You're like, you,

you, I just look at your work and I get really

excited. And who or what inspires you

so much? I mean, I think the main thing is society,

you know, what's happening in the world,

you know, what's happening to human beings? What

are we actually experiencing? What's,

what's going on here? We're all living on this

planet at the same time. Something's happening,

you know, so I'm really fascinated in the sociology

of things like how society moves and morphs and

how that sort of portrayed through culture. So

movies, music, fashion shoots, photography,

poetry, really inspires me massively all the time.

And just seeing what people are creating,

people's creative work inspires me. Whatever for.

Do you, do you, I feel again that this is such a

cliche question, but I want to ask it anyway. How

do you know when you, when a painting's finished,

you know, when you're working on that? You don't,

you don't, you never will. And it's a question

that's asked quite a lot. And the truth is you'll

never know, you'll never know if you added a little

bit more, whether it had been better or whether if

you'd have finished a little bit earlier,

you'd have left it a little bit unripe. And

actually with my work, I'm leaving things very

sort of underdeveloped. I'm leaving them way off

the boil now. And I like that sort of space and

that kind of unfinishedness of things. And I'm

finishing things a lot earlier than I would have

done five or six years ago. That's really

interesting. So you're, you're kind of just

stepping back. You're conscious of that a little

bit more. That's wild.

Yeah, way more. How, you know,

as an artist, you know, and it's, it's all so much

of it's coming from, from the heart and that space

place of creativity. What do you think about people

who are critics about then? Do you have an opinion?

I think they're brilliant. They're great.

Brilliant. We need more of it.

I think, I think actually we're

not seeing enough criticism. I think it's really

useful to help us navigate. And I think that's how

we grow. And I think we should be deeply critical.

And I think we're at a time actually where

criticism is seen as something negative. I think

that's really sad. I think, I think it's really

important that we're critical about artistic output

and what it means. And, you know, dare I say,

is something good and what makes it good and does

it work and why doesn't it work? And yeah, I, I

remember, you know, a zillion years ago, studying

art history at school. And it was the first time

that, you know, that was, that we were even given

that idea of going, Oh, do you like this? Yeah.

How come? You know, or you don't like it? How come?

And to have to analyze it in your brain, well,

yeah, why don't, why do I like it? It's, I love

that feeling, you know, and, and also being able

to know ourselves. Yeah. Agreed. And, and, and, you

know, separating it from going, well,

I just like it and that's okay, but, but it's fun

to kind of then explore. Yeah. Yeah. What,

what gets you going about it? And there's loads of

brilliant art that I don't like. Yeah. And I

totally respect and I don't like it. I think it's

bad for whatever reason. Yeah. But I've learned

so much from it. I mean, I love bad art as much as

I love good art, you know, because it's subjective.

Yeah. It doesn't matter.

That's awesome. It's not about that.

All right. Now where am I up to on my, on my, my

silly little list that I've got? Oh,

what role does provocation or shock play for an

artist? I know that there's plenty of art that

will, you know, soothe you or you'll lose yourself

in, but there seems to be so much more that gets

motivated by the need to kind of slap you across

the face. I mean, do you have thoughts about that?

Yeah, I think, I think the, um, yeah, I do have

thoughts about that. I think some art sets out

to be sensational and to shock and it does garner

attention and some issues need that, right? I mean,

we need some artistic voices to cut through if

they're saying something important and, and

actually sometimes art should disturb us and make

us ask questions because it's freedom of speech.

It's where we express big, bold ideas. And we're

very lucky to live in the West where we live,

where we can express these ideas. Cause we might be

in another part of the world where we can't,

but, um, but I don't think a lot has to do that. I

think it can be beautiful and it can be elegant

and it can be moving and it can be romantic and it,

it can be all of those things. Just like how a

movie can be all of those things can be shocking

and frightening and make us cry or make us full of

joy, you know, and I think art should do all of

those things, you know, and sometimes it's easier

to shock maybe. And I think that's what worries me

than it is to deal with those more nuanced

things. Yeah. Um, perhaps a good artist can wield

all of that quite well, get the balancing act.

all of that quite well, get the balancing act.

Um, my, as, as, as per usual, the, the, the sand

time we just, it goes so fast, but I'm going to be,

as I always am, I'm going to be naughty and I'm

as I always am, I'm going to be naughty and I'm

going to squeeze one more in. Um,

just a little, just a little kind of wedged in the

end. Um, I've got, I've got to choose which one I

want. Um, Oh yeah, I, yeah, this, this is, um, this

is a good one to finish on actually. So when,

when you look back at your career as an artist, um,

do you think that you've been on kind of one

winding path, exploring similar ideas or concepts,

or do you think you kind of take hard left or right

turns where your work will change dramatically? And

if it is the latter, is that a conscious choice?

Do you force yourself to turn left and set a right?

Well, I think I've worked across so many different

things and I've done so much stuff,

but I'm always driven by like some kind of impulse.

And the weird thing is, is in retrospect,

when I look back, it all seems to make sense. It

feels very linear. And I've, I've thought about

this a lot. And I think the consistent thing

weirdly is me. I made it all. That's the thing

it's got in common. So whether it's a paint

formulation or an art installation or a bit of

video work or wherever it is that I've made, I did

it. So it's how I felt at the time. So

it doesn't ever feel like a hard right or a hard

left, but at the time it can feel quite

desperate. Like what on earth am I doing learning

how to write code today when I was painting

yesterday, but in a long enough timeline, it all

seems to kind of make sense. It's weird.

That's amazing. Thank you, first of all, for taking

time out. And also I wanted to thank you

just from a personal level. Like I said before that

I find your work really inspiring. I honestly

do. It literally gets my heart kind of racing and,

and, and it's, yeah, so it's an absolute joy

to speak to you actually. Oh, well, it was lovely

to meet you. Thank you, mate. Thank you. Cheers.

Stuart, thank you so much for taking part in the

podcast. It was brilliant to have you on. And,

um, yeah, apologies again for reading the

questions. I was convinced

I was going to fluff it if I

didn't read them. Um, thank you to my executive

producer MixingLight.com. If you're watching

this or listening to this on their website, you

already know what they do. Uh, if not check them

out mixinglight.com. They can help you with

everything color. Uh, and thank you to you,

the listener. I've had so much great feedback

already. Keep the comments coming, do the like,

subscribe, all that stuff. It really does help and,

see you next episode.

The color timer, a micro podcast experience.