Mezzo Soprano Emily Harmon On Seeing Color Harmonies In Music

Welcome to the Colour Timer podcast. I am your host

Vincent Taylor. This is the

show where we speak to professionals who work with

colour. Today I am speaking to

Emily Harmon. Emily is an operatic, mezzo soprano

and crossover artist. And why are

we speaking to an opera singer on a show about

colour? You're just gonna have to

wait and find out. But I'm really really excited

about this episode so let's go.

Take your seats because the Hourglass is about to

turn. We are entering the world

of the micro podcast. Explore the craft, creativity

and science of professionals

who use colour to tell stories. Welcome to the

Color Timer with Vincent Taylor.

Emily, hi, thank you for joining me. Hi, thanks for

having me Vincent. So good to be here.

Absolutely. Yeah, yeah it's great. It's great to

catch up. So I was doing a little bit of

stalking and I was looking up and according to my

notes here it says, you're an

operatic mezzo soprano and crossover artist. The

only word I really understand

in all of that is operatic. So can you tell me

about yourself? What do you do?

So my background and my focus is in opera so I sing

opera and that day, nowadays what

that means is that, you know, back in

the old days opera singers were just

sort of expected to stand and sing and, you know,

sound pretty and not much else but

nowadays with the advent of opera coming into movie

theaters and things like that,

you know, we act, dance, do all the things that

actors and musical theatre performers

are expected to do plus being able to sing the

famous operatic repertoire. So mostly

I do opera but I also do some musical theatre and

I've sung backup for a few touring pop artists

like Josh Groban. Last year I sang with Natalie

Merchant and also Sarah Brightman one time and

I, so I focus on opera but I love the arts in all

their forms and I try to get,

have as full of an experience as

possible and do as much as I can.

Is that when you write, you're a

crossover artist? Is that what that means?

Basically crossover artists, that usually means

people who don't just stick to one genre. So

people like, I would say somebody like Audra

McDonald, you know, she does film and TV but

she also does musical theatre and or someone like

Kelly O'Hara is, you know, she's, you know,

she got famous doing Broadway but she was recently

in The Hours at the Metropolitan Opera.

So crossover artists tend to dabble in a lot of

things and that's what I try to do because I just

can't stick to one, I guess, word. And then you've

got something coming up in September,

you want to tell me about that? Sure, in September

I'm playing a character named

Little Buttercup in the operetta HMS Pinafore by

Gilbert and Sullivan, who interestingly,

she's actually an older woman who sells food and

items and things to sailors who are coming into

port and she's a bit of an eccentric character and

she's the comedic, I mean it's a funny show but

she's kind of the comedic relief of the thing and

she's got a little bit of a secret. So

I'm really looking forward to that. Yeah, so it's

an operetta, so it's light opera,

there's dialogue but there's also music that's

inspired by the great operatic repertoire of the

19th century. So, yeah. And so where is that going

to be playing and how long does it play for?

It's actually just a very short contract, so that's

going to be at Winter Opera St. Louis

in St. Louis, Missouri and it's just for one

weekend, it's November 8th and 10th. Right.

Right. Yeah, so that's the next

thing coming up and then I'm hoping to do

a couple potential concerts in the works like I'm

supposed to be doing Handel's Messiah in

Christmas time, it's a big season for that and then

I'm hoping to do a Beethoven

9 in the spring, the famous Ode to Joy. Oh my gosh.

Yeah, so. That's amazing. Thank you, thank you.

And now I'm wondering how many people who are

listening to this because this is a podcast that

speaks to professionals who work with color and

folks are going, okay, so she's a singer, I guess

singers are colorful, but the deep, dark, secret

reason that I'm speaking to you is because,

I was introduced to you because you experience

synesthesia. Yes, yeah. Yes. And then I have,

for those that, just to show you that I do my

research, here's my little, those who don't know

what it is, I actually, my very first guest in my

last season, Rory Gordon, who's a colorist like me,

she has an element of synesthesia as well. So

that's the first time I even, I'd never heard of

the word before, but for those of those who don't

know, I'm just going to read the straight off the

text. Synesthesia is when your brain routes sensory

information through multiple unrelated

senses so you can experience more than one sense

simultaneously. So you

have this gift of synesthesia.

Tell me all about it. I'm so, so curious. So to my

knowledge, synesthesia can occur and, you know,

it can be colors and tastes or colors and letters

or something like that. For me,

my experience of synesthesia is that I tend to

experience colors when I hear music or when I

sing music. And it's actually not that uncommon

with other classical musicians or musicians in

general. And I, in fact, when I was 18, I was in

music school in Boston, Harvard was conducting a

study of musicians who have perfect pitch, which is

when you can hear a note and identify what the

note is, or you hear a song and, oh, that's in G

major, whatever. And they were doing a study

linking people with perfect pitch and synesthesia.

And I also have perfect pitch. So I went in and

they tested me for synesthesia with letters and

numbers, but then also with pitches, chords, and

instrument timbres. And they put me in an MRI

machine and had me rate music that I liked. But

anyway, but what it did was what we would do is,

for example, they would play a C major chord.

And on the computer, there would be a color wheel

and I would take a color dropper and put it

approximately at what color I identify with C major

or G major or whatever. And depending on how

consistent your answers are, that grades with what

level, what or how strong your synesthesia is,

basically. And so for me with my synesthesia, I

tend to see in color schemes. So if, and I know

I mentioned the Beethoven 9 earlier, that was

actually one of the, that's one of my most

powerful synesthetic experiences. And it's, you

know, it's obviously one of the most famous pieces

in the world. And one of the reasons it's still so

special to me is because every time I hear it,

I, my brain conjures this image of like blues and

greens and gold just sort of exploding like

kind of amorphous fireworks in my mind's eye. And

it's, in addition to the beautiful music,

it's also seeing this kind of color play happening

in my mind's eye. And that, and that happens a lot

for other pieces of music too of different colors

or the colors might be different saturations or

textures or combinations, but that tends to be what

it's like for me. Yeah, like schemes.

And so those colors, you see them in your mind. So

you don't need to close your eyes,

did you close your eyes or? I don't need to. It's

not, it's different from, I can't say I've ever

hallucinated anything, but I imagine, you know, if

someone, it's not like, you know, you're staring

at a, you know, I'm looking at you now and suddenly

I can't see you because there are colors

literally in my vision. It's more like if somebody

tells you to imagine your favorite color and you

say, okay, my favorite color is like forest green.

And you think of things that are all in that family

of forest green. It's kind of like that. It's like,

instead of somebody telling me to imagine a color,

it's like the music or the sounds will inspire

those colors in that same way.

I mean, it sounds, no pun intended, but it sounds

really beautiful, but is it beautiful or is it

overwhelming? I wouldn't say, I don't know if it's

overwhelming because it's something that I've

experienced my whole life before I even knew what

it was. And it is really, and I actually

think it enhances my enjoyment of music because

even if I'm sitting, whether I have my eyes open

or closed, there's something else going on. There's

in my vision, which is, you know, this display of

color that's happening. And it's like, I have other

friends who have synesthesia as well, and we'll,

sometimes argue about, oh, well, I see F major as green

and somebody will say, oh, no, it's

definitely brown. And, you know, it's a fun, you

know, so it's not, it's also not the same.

That is sensational. Yeah. That is amazing. Yeah.

Those arguments do tend to happen pretty

frequently, which is hilarious to me. Yeah. And

then, and then going back a little bit,

when you said about, you know, you've

had this your whole life, how did you,

how did you realize that it was something that not

everyone had? I mean, and how old were you when

you kind of could articulate that? I think I was

about 12 or 13. I was in middle school. I was

taking flute lessons. I was in band and I wanted

to, you know, get better at instrument. And my

teacher was a, he was a jazz musician. And so he's,

he has a whole incredible skill set that's also,

you know, closely linked. And he was the one who

first asked if I had perfect pitch.

And, and so he tested me for it. And, and that's

also, it's not, it's pretty rare in general,

but with musicians, it's not super uncommon. And

after that, he tested me for that by plunking

some core notes on the piano and maybe guess. And

then he's after we concluded I had perfect pitch,

he said, do you, do you see colors when you, when

you know, and that was the first argument I had

about the synesthesia, you know, I, we were playing

a duet that was an A major and he said,

what color is this to you? And I said, Oh, this is,

you know, pastel pink and magenta. And he

said, eww, which I will not, I will not stand for,

for the, you know, you know, pink shaming. But,

you know, but he said, Oh, no, I see it as blue or

something like that. And, yeah, so, so yeah,

and, and, and I guess, I guess the fact that he was

even asking you about it, you kind of answered

it then, but he experienced it as well. Yeah. I

mean, he, the fact that he knew about it.

Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And I, yeah, so I

think that was the first time I was became aware

of it, but I didn't realize it wasn't that common

or yeah, I didn't, I thought it was just something

that everybody had. So when, when we were first

talking about it, and I think also because it was

natural for him and a lot of other, you know, kids

I was in band with at what it didn't make,

it didn't seem like a particularly unique thing at

the time, but the more I've talked to other

people, it seems like it's, it's somewhat unique.

And it's something that I really,

it's an experience I know I really cherish, I

think, because I could so very easily not have

it. And I can't imagine what listening to music or

performing music would be like without having

that experience. Yeah. And, and, and so is it a, is

it always, is there always a consistency with,

you know, like a G major, is it always the same

color? So it's never changed. It's 98% of the time,

it's the same, to the point where I find that if

there are pieces of music or musical keys that I

associate with colors that I like, I will gravitate

to those songs more. So if I'm listening to songs

on the radio, there might be a song that I would

not like, but, but it's in F major and F major is

like schemes of green, which I really like. So I

love listening to things in F major. I love

listening to things in D flat major because

they're, to me, they're

teals and turquoises and kind of

cool blue tones and E flat are like deep magenta or

wine reds. And this is wonderful. This is

wonderful. There was, I did have an experience just

this past week where I was listening to something

that was, it sounded gold to me. And I was like,

what, what key is this? And I realized it was in B

flat, which is usually like a blue or red. And so

the fact that the thing that was in B flat was

sounding gold to me was, it was like, I had to like

reimagine it. It was, it was really strange, but

so yeah. Yeah. And then, and then I was wondering,

does it work in, for one of a bit of a word, not

reverse, but if you see a color, do you hear, could

you hear a sound or, you know, like if you were

standing in front of a pink wall, would you? I, you

know, I never thought about that, but kind of,

I think there, because of my association with

colors as a result of sound,

I, I'm just, I have never really thought about this

before. So I'm kind of thinking through it

on the spot, but I really do think, I think there's

something to that because

Cause I could, I could be

wrong, but I think I remember

reading somewhere learning that back in the 17th,

18th century, composers would often associate

certain keys with certain themes. So, you know,

things that were labeled as pastoral or spring,

like would usually be in keys like D major, A

major, things like that. Things that were

sad were usually written in minor keys, et cetera.

And where am I going with that? So, and I think,

so as a result, I think, you know, I see, if I see

like pastel pinks or colors that are associated

with spring, I probably also associate them with

things that are with keys that are that color

because they're in spring-like or ocean-like or

mountain-like or something like that.

So I think there's, I think there's absolutely

something to that. I would need to, I, I want to

investigate that. Because I started thinking of

like an, an atypical, I mean, I'm always going

to reference film cause I'm such a nerd, but, but,

but, you know, if you, if you went for a,

a stereotypical color strong film, like three

colors blue or something like that, I wonder if

you, if you watch a film with these really strong

colors, but then the

soundtrack is, is, goes against

what your position of what that color should be. If

it, if it, Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I feel like I've

had an experience like that. I will say I, you

know, I love old Hollywood and I love, you know,

the old black and white movies. I love Casablanca

and things like that. And

I, but I do find, you know, I have a

hard time with the music in it because

the images are in black and white. Oh my gosh. I

was like, that, that just,

you know, and it's something where

if I, you know, if I listened to,

I dunno, the theme from, I can't really think of

one at this moment, but if I listened to,

you know, the soundtrack of a black and white film,

it's like the colors will fill in later.

And it might almost colorize the movie a bit for

me, but if I'm watching it,

that's exactly what I was thinking. I was going, Oh

my God, you're colorizing your own films.

That's exactly, exactly. That's fantastic. That is

amazing. Oh wow. And, and then I, I mean, my,

my, my color timer has flipped off, which it's my,

it's my nagging kind of time thing going,

okay, it's time to wrap up. But, but, but I, and I,

and I always do this. Some people are going,

why do you even have a color timer if you go over

the time, but I'm going to do it anyway.

With, you know, yeah, yeah. It's my podcast. That's

right. If, if, if you have a color related to a,

like a key or a notice something like that does,

you know, because you, you can have a yellow,

but then you can have hues of yellow. Does, does

the, the, the tones come into this at all?

The tones of the color. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Oh,

okay. Oh, absolutely. I'm trying to think of,

okay. So for, for example, just speaking of key,

that seems to be the thing that my mind is on

today. F major is, for example, I love things that

are in F major, but they conjure up like spring

types of greens, bright greens, like grass greens,

kind of, I'm trying to think, I have the color of

my eye. My air pod case is this sort of sage green

or aqua green, but something that was in

D minor, which is a neighboring key. It's F major,

but the minor version of it basically,

or I forgot, my theory is escaping me at the

moment, but D minor is a more,

they're more saturated greens. They're darker

greens, things like emerald forest green,

potentially bordering into teal, but definitely

cooler green tones where the F major, maybe

because it's kind of a stereotypically happier key,

they're brighter tones. So I think major and

minor, and then different modes, they're, you know,

they're different instead of you have major and

minor, and then you have all these different modes

in between that also have interesting color.

That is so amazing. And you actually, you actually

answered another one of my questions,

which was, you know, because you're talking about,

it was F major and D minor, I don't know, my

musical, but yeah. All right. So, but I, and I was

going to ask if notes are close together,

if they are totally different colors, but they're

not from what you're saying. They're in the same

kind of color part of the color wheel, but

different. Yeah. So here's an, I'll throw

another wrench into it because my, oh, go on, I

feel like, because I'm hijacking this. No,

I know this is, I'm so glad we've gotten to talk

about this. Really, I haven't thought about this

in a long time or, you know, so let's taking again,

F major that has for me, this sort of

bright green spectrum of family of greens, you have

F major, and then you have F minor,

which is like the sad version of that. And that

brings in almost the greens become a little less

saturated, but still sort of medium greens. And,

but they also bring in some magenta because these

I think it's the, it's not the relative major, but

F minor is also related to A flat major,

which for me is magenta and purple. So between F

major, so between F major and A flat major,

you have F minor, which shares the tonic, which is

the home note of F with the, the notes

and the sort of harmonic, harmonic things of A Flat

any music theorist who might be listening

to this, I'm so sorry, but basically, I swear I did

really well in theory in school. It's just

been a long time. So between F minor or F major and

A flat major, you have F minor. So there are

these kind of greens of F that have been darkened

with their minor and then these little shoots of

pink and magenta. And it's almost like, oh, so F

minor for me is like a wilting flower

in that way, which is like sad, but like they're

really gorgeous, beautiful wilting flower.

Right. Yeah. And so then exactly. And so then D

may, well, then you have F major, D major,

actually very similar. And then D minor in the

middle is like a darker green thing. And so

anyway, it's, it's just, I, it just, it just, it

just opens up all these other, and I'm, I'm,

my own worst enemy. But I am going to wrap it up.

But it's incredible. And it's so marvelous to

chat with you about this. This is extraordinary. I

just love it. It's really, really good. So

no, no, thank you. Thank you for taking time out to

have a chat with me on the show. Oh my gosh,

it's been so great talking to you too. I'm so glad

we got to talk about this and

love talking about colors and color theory.

Thank you. Thanks Vincent.

Emily, thank you so much. We stopped the

recording and Emily and I, we just kept

talking because it was, oh my gosh, it's a rabbit

hole. And we're both getting really excited

talking about color. And I hope you all enjoyed that

episode because it was, it was really fun for me.

And I'm sorry we went a bit over, but yeah, it's my

podcast. I'm allowed do it. Thank you very much to my

executive producer MixingLight.com. Chances are if

you're seeing this recording on their website,

you already are well aware of what they do. If not,

check them out. They can help you with all

things color, color grading. It's, it's a really

great service. And yeah, check it out. Thank you

again to those who are buying t-shirts. Oh my God,

it's so funny. You guys are buying t-shirts.

It's so cute. I keep getting photos of people with

their, in fact, if you get a t-shirt,

take a photo and send it to me. I'd love to see it.

It kind of, it's yeah, it's really, really fun.

I'm still so excited about that conversation.

You're like, calm down,

calm down and say goodbye to

everyone. Thank you for listening. Like, subscribe

and all that stuff because it does help the,

I used to just say it does help, but then I've seen

people say it helps the algorithm. So

if you can help my algorithm, I'd appreciate that.

I will see you next time. Thank you so much. Bye.

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